tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post7787634768583708274..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: South Carolina: a Case Study in How to Tear a Church ApartA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-18550307021080480892010-03-17T09:45:26.782-07:002010-03-17T09:45:26.782-07:00Whatever may be the outcome of civil litigation, t...Whatever may be the outcome of civil litigation, the Canons mkae it clear that proceedings can be brought against a priest for “knowingly violating or attempting to violate, directly or through the acts of another person, the Constitution or Canons of the Church or of any Diocese...." I would suppose that this means that any priest in South Carolina who seeks to take advantage of the Supreme Court's ruling on the Denis Canon could still be guilty of violating the Canons. Would a Bishop who allowed such actions by one of his priests be in violation as well?Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-78827177233300235042010-03-16T16:38:53.448-07:002010-03-16T16:38:53.448-07:00Although the US Supreme Court has declined to cons...Although the US Supreme Court has declined to consider a California case, I hope that there will be an appeal to that court of the South Carolina decision.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-42079360448650043302010-03-16T16:18:56.857-07:002010-03-16T16:18:56.857-07:00I stand corrected. I did not have time to read you...I stand corrected. I did not have time to read your post - they are very long, but then you are a lawyer - and responded in ignorance.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-82385610233835190932010-03-13T15:50:55.492-08:002010-03-13T15:50:55.492-08:00Fr. Weir, you are always welcome here -- have no f...Fr. Weir, you are always welcome here -- have no fear. However, you appear to have missed the fact that the Dennis Canon <i>cannot</i> be enforced in South Carolina, because the South Carolina Supreme Court held that it was contrary to the (much older) Statute of Frauds. Thus "lack of enforcement of the Dennis Canon" would not be a charge that could properly be laid against Bishop Lawrence.<br /><br />A court in Indiana recently said the same thing about the Presbyterian equivalent of the Dennis Canon, and I will be writing about that soon. <br /><br />The resolution does not say anything contrary to ECUSA's Constitution and Canons -- it speaks of South Carolina as a "sovereign diocese <i>within</i> the Episcopal Church." And you should be the first to agree that there cannot be a second "Episcopal Church" within the Diocese of South Carolina. If that is the case, then how could the Presiding Bishop hire an attorney to represent it, and without asking the permission of the bishop of the diocese?A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-56882952089901422142010-03-13T12:24:54.999-08:002010-03-13T12:24:54.999-08:00As reluctant as I am to enter the fray here, I thi...As reluctant as I am to enter the fray here, I think that if the PB is concerned that Bp Lawrenceis not committed to enforcing the Canons, including the Denis Canon, it is prudent to retain legal counsel in SC. The resolution cited ny Mr. Haley seems to disregard the fact that the sovereignty of the diocese is not absolute - it is limited by the C & C of TEC.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-57867353233275151452010-03-12T10:02:26.349-08:002010-03-12T10:02:26.349-08:00Allen Lewis,
We too have known Nick Ziegler for ...Allen Lewis,<br /><br />We too have known Nick Ziegler for years and we remain good friends with him and his wife. However, it must be remembered that Nick does indeed have a unique perspective on the lawsuit with All Saints. Does he regret doing what he did? I don't know. Does it matter?? FOR NOW, the question of the Denis Canon is a thing of the past and no longer relevant to diocesan affairs.<br /><br />I think you underestimate this diocese esp. if you have not been here for years. I believe the leaders are doing what they can to remain faithful to their mission ...which truthfully has very little to do with TECUSA and lot to with our Gospel mission. There are MANY who are indeed serious about their faith. Don't believe me.. just look at the overwhelming majority (80+ %) who passed various resolution at diocesan conventions. Hardly a bunch of episcopagans.<br /><br />SC Blu Cat ladyAlexihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09222877183938209659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-61415487943114758942010-03-11T14:51:58.327-08:002010-03-11T14:51:58.327-08:00Thanks for this post.Thanks for this post.Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-92204019603635601472010-03-11T11:25:40.501-08:002010-03-11T11:25:40.501-08:00Grandmother, no, as of yesterday, at any rate, ECU...Grandmother, no, as of yesterday, at any rate, ECUSA has not filed anything in support of the petition for review of the South Carolina Supreme Court's decision in the All Saints Waccamaw case.<br /><br />My current understanding is that they have until next Monday, the 15th, in which to do so.<br /><br />I wrote about these proceedings in <a href="http://accurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2010/02/all-saints-waccamaw-episcopal-vestry.html" rel="nofollow">this earlier post</a>, to which your commenter may have been referring. Back then, because of the deadlines as originally extended, I thought the deadline for joining in the petition was March 8, instead of March 15, and that may be the source of the confusion. What happened is the Clerk's Office at the U.S. Supreme Court did not get the case docketed until the 22nd of February, and that changed the deadline by which ECUSA had to file papers if it wanted to join in the petition.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-1086770375616770182010-03-11T10:59:11.368-08:002010-03-11T10:59:11.368-08:00Dear Sir,
Over on T 19, someone is saying that in...Dear Sir,<br /><br />Over on T 19, someone is saying that indeed TEC did join the appeal at the US Supreme Court.<br /><br />He used your name, but also said he didn't remember the reference..<br />Can you elucidate?<br /><br />Grandmother in SCGrandmotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10405148580773920701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-76847914229658362352010-03-11T09:37:57.439-08:002010-03-11T09:37:57.439-08:00Curmudgeon -
I have known Nick Zeigler for quite ...Curmudgeon -<br /><br />I have known Nick Zeigler for quite some time. I wonder if he now laments advising Bishop Salmon to file notice of the Denis Canon in all counties of the diocese?<br /><br />I have always been appalled that Bishop Salmon did as advised. I think it was an ill-conceived action. I will say, in +Salmon's defense, that he bent over backwards trying to accommodate All Saints Waccamaw during the years that the legal case dragged on.<br /><br />By the same token, I was puzzled by Bishop Allison's actions in supporting Chuck Murphy. I am afraid I still have no respect for Bishop Murphy and consider his deportment during this mess less than stellar. But the All Saints community has always had a mind of its own.<br /><br />I am afraid that the Diocese of SC is in for rough sledding. I think the leaders of the diocese have underestimated the lawlessness of 815 and are being very naive about the entire situation with the national church structure. <br /><br />It is sadly the case that a lot of people in the Episcopal Church within the Diocese of South Carolina are, in my opinion, not really that serous about their faith. If I malign anyone unjustly, I apologize in advance, but that is my experience, having lived and associated with people from all over the diocese for most of my 60+ years.<br /><br />This is a very sad time for my former diocese. I wish them well and will be holding them in prayer during the days to come.Allen Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853861649876959271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-32690113149090574822010-03-10T20:14:27.133-08:002010-03-10T20:14:27.133-08:00I can't help but wonder if the PB and her chan...I can't help but wonder if the PB and her chancellor realize they've lost the use of the Dennis Canon. I guess then, as I think you've said, they'll attempt to go after the good Bishop (Lawrence) himself.Alexihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09222877183938209659noreply@blogger.com