tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post4300128715354600601..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: Proposed Title IV Revisions Will Finally Isolate ECUSAA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-76030571553111772852009-07-15T08:50:25.789-07:002009-07-15T08:50:25.789-07:00Mr. Haley,
It was your assertion that the changes ...Mr. Haley,<br />It was your assertion that the changes in Title IV would result in "a complete and final divorce of its polity and orders from the rest of the Anglican Communion" to which I responded with the observation that there is already such varied polity in the Communion as to make this change insignificant. <br /><br />The Canons are less than clear about how Letters Dimmisory are to be obtained. III.6.b(1) states that a deacon needs to request a Letter Dimissory, but III.9.4 (a) is silent on how a priest is to acquire a Letter Dimissory. The difference may be an indication of the different relationships that deacons and priests have with their bishops, but I find the lack of clarity in III.9.4 (a) a problem. The gracious thing for a priest to do when desiring to be transfered to another chusrch in the Communion would be to request a Letter Dimissory. If the priest fails to do that, perhaps becuase he no longer recognizes the authority of the bishop, I would agree that the gracious thing for the bishop to do would be to issue one. However, I think we both know that graciousness has not been much in evidence on either side in this controversy. Given the uncertain status of ACNA in the Communion, there seems little chance that Letters Dimissory will be issued for Episcopal clergy who in the immediate future desire to join ACNA.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-66439520602677826372009-07-14T10:53:13.102-07:002009-07-14T10:53:13.102-07:00Father Weir, the Abandonment Canons are already be...Father Weir, the Abandonment Canons are <i>already</i> being applied, as you say, to depose people who left to join other churches in the Anglican Communion. Until this change in their language, one at least had the argument that such a transfer was no ground for deposition. If letters dimissory are appropriate, why stand on the ceremony of a request? (Or, if a bishop wanted a request to be made, surely it would if he only made that clear to the departing priest.)<br /><br />With the change, however, the language will now conform to how the Canons are being applied, at least. That is not to say the Anglican Communion will be better off: things will be clearer, to be sure, but the balkanization will grow worse, and the Communion as a result harder to maintain.<br /><br />I think that polity is different from Communion. The latter is a relationship, not a structure for government. Dr. Doe's suggestion was not a statement about Communion, but about the basis for there to be a common ground of canon law within it.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-29603740552001302792009-07-14T07:12:10.038-07:002009-07-14T07:12:10.038-07:00I disagree with Mr. Haley's view of the change...I disagree with Mr. Haley's view of the changes and with his answer to Matthew's question. I do not see the propssed canons as having any effect on the orderly transfer of clergy from one member church of the Communion to another. Such transfers will continue to happen from time to time. What has been my view of the recent departures from the Episcopal Church was that they were not orderly transfers of clergy, but very disorderly departures. Public statements were made by some about no longer being members of the Episcopal Church, but requests for transfer were not made, leaving the PB and others with the task of figuring out how to deal with confusing situations. The proposed changes will provide a way to act when clergy leave the Episcopal Church without requesting transfer to another member church. <br /><br />While the changes might be seen as distancing the Episcopal Churdh from the polity of the rest of the Communion, that polity is already so varied that I fail to see a common ground that the Episcopal Church is abandoning. The suggesttion that the Communion needs more uniformity in polity, made by Dr. Norman Doe, suggests that there us less common ground than Mr. Haley seems to believe.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-60106974964859753082009-07-12T07:44:03.696-07:002009-07-12T07:44:03.696-07:00You've just showed how balkanization works, Ma...You've just showed how balkanization works, Matthew. In each of the cases you describe, the clergy in question would have left either ECUSA or ACoC, and so under the revised Canon, they would be deposed. As far as ECUSA will be concerned, or as far as ACoC is concerned, if you are ordained into it, you die in it if you want to keep your orders.<br /><br />This is The Welcoming, Inclusive and Transparent Church of the 21st Century!A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-18602287053084219852009-07-12T06:56:42.808-07:002009-07-12T06:56:42.808-07:00So where does this leave priests who wish to trans...So where does this leave priests who wish to transfer from Canada to the US or from the US to Scotland?<br /><br />Are they abandoning the 'church'?mousestalkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07640977915382623244noreply@blogger.com