tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post363010889090380345..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: Still an Anglican, but BarelyA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-6103865611999142442016-08-10T09:14:06.268-07:002016-08-10T09:14:06.268-07:00Fr. Van,
Amen.Fr. Van,<br />Amen.Dale Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-53483825417488822472016-08-07T11:31:33.058-07:002016-08-07T11:31:33.058-07:00Dear LJ - I think we are more in agreement than yo...Dear LJ - I think we are more in agreement than you may realize. I regret that my writing did not make that clear. Two of the concerns that I endeavored to address were the very things that you mentioned – that Anglicans seem to be reduced by critics to a church that is merely a byproduct of the whims of Henry VIII and/or some imperialist expression of the British Kingdom (hence the use of “ethnocentric”). My point was that we must not accept those as defining principles. There are some historical realities there, but that is not who we are. My admiration for Thomas More is not because he was Roman Catholic, but because he was so genuinely faithful to Christ. Likewise, we are first and foremost Christians who proclaim Jesus as our Savior. And as Anglicans, we share an authentic catholicism rooted in the pre-Roman catholicism, that is the Early Church Catholic (unified). Also, our clergy have the benefit of orders under Apostolic Succession, along with those of the Orthodox and Roman Churches, which is why I singled out those denominations. I do see Apostolic Succession as a defining feature of ordination, but that was not meant at all to dismiss the great work that God is doing in other denominations. In conclusion, I hoped to communicate in my article encouragement to Anglicans and Episcopalians that we not become discouraged by mistaken denominational labels and recent events, when our hope and our identity are found in Jesus and transmitted to us through the apostles and Early Church. That is a heritage that no one can take from us. Fr. Van McCalisterVanrensalierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832800330041807392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-23900281349118686882016-08-05T07:11:08.780-07:002016-08-05T07:11:08.780-07:00Our Curmudgeon has suggested that we read Fr. Van ...Our Curmudgeon has suggested that we read Fr. Van McCalister's observations in the linked post. I found it to be slightly challenging. I have a beef with a large part of Father Van's post, but I agree with his essential point on unity.<br /><br />Fully half of his post alienated and frustrated me, because it accused me/us of holding King Henry VIII and the Act of Supremacy as central to our identity as Anglicans. I think most Anglicans should be offended at phrases like "If we continue under the mistaken identity that our patrimony is Henry VIII, Thomas Cranmer and the Reformation Movement..." and "Anglicanism is no longer ethnocentric and imperialist." <br /><br />I have spent my life holding fast to the belief that Henry did not define Anglicanism; that he was instrumental in establishing a great institution despite his well-known failures. Growing up on the West Coast where all Christians were suspect, I was still always hurt by the common slander against Anglican/Episcopal legitimacy due to Henry. Far from ethnocentric, I am enthused by the strong leadership now being provided by the African provinces. I was proud to be a member of the Church of Uganda for several years, and was thrilled to attend a men's retreat with Archbishop Henry Orombi.<br /><br />The author seems to admire that More "believed the Roman Catholic Church represented the root of Christianity". And yet I believe the Anglican Church represents the root of Christianity as well as any other denominational group. My love of Anglicanism includes the idea that it better retains the authentic faith and practice of the Fathers of the Church. Isn't it the most reformed of the Catholic and the most catholic of the Reformed?<br /><br />My favorite message of Fr. Van's post was his call for us to see our identity as entwined with that of the Roman and Orthodox faithful. He clearly favors them over the other Protestant denominations. I, however, also feel akin to the Methodists, Presbyterians, and Lutherans, to name a few others. After leaving our last Episcopal congregation, we eagerly tried many other denominations (and landed at a Reformed Episcopal mission). I believe the other denominations all suffer from the same challenges as we Anglicans, and carry the same hope. Today we are members of an ACNA congregation.<br /><br />I would love to see the Anglican Church more closely embrace other denominations on the basis of shared faith in Scripture and Creeds. If there are non-essential, Anglican/Roman doctrines that we maintain, I hope these will not stand in the way of greater Christian unity. Yet today, even under the relative persecution we face, I see quite a lot of denominational chauvinism. LJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14259338463561745614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-9090812895110066682016-08-04T03:32:38.770-07:002016-08-04T03:32:38.770-07:00And goodbye to you, Father Ron -- as you may not h...And goodbye to you, Father Ron -- as you may not have noticed, I shook the dust from my feet a year ago. <br /><br />May you fare as does the organization you so admire. A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-42873879110190889952016-08-03T06:22:45.930-07:002016-08-03T06:22:45.930-07:00Goodbye, Curmudgeon. Don't forget to wipe your...Goodbye, Curmudgeon. Don't forget to wipe your feet as you leave ECUSA. The Church will probably survive without your doom and gloom. Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-74078107453417993362016-08-03T05:19:05.842-07:002016-08-03T05:19:05.842-07:00Keep writing. The pen... or in this case the blog....Keep writing. The pen... or in this case the blog... is more powerful than the sword.<br /><br />You have a wonderful way of separating the chaff from the grain.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-7234015717532743792016-08-02T19:45:12.888-07:002016-08-02T19:45:12.888-07:00mr haley, while i spent my formative years in the ...mr haley, while i spent my formative years in the diocese of sc, most of my adult life has been in NC. i joined an ACNA congregation last year after much consideration. my father is one of the 'defrocked' in SC after 40+ years of ministry/leadership. while the efficacy of that could be debated, the reality is that diocese continues to grow and they continue to look to the future. i'm looking forward to the next chapter for them and for your take on it - thanks for your insight and transparency - d maloneAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05743842501237610306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-4843246454159449482016-08-02T18:08:54.192-07:002016-08-02T18:08:54.192-07:00I like to think of my relationship with God, mysel...I like to think of my relationship with God, myself and my neighbors (& even my enemies) as an isosceles triangle and God is at the vertex point and my neighbors and I are at the base points. What I do in life should lead me on the path to the vertex point, and my neighbors' paths should lead them toward the vertex point. We grow closer together until we are all heavenly bound. When we love our enemies, it is clear that we should not allow them to pillage and sunder God's resources because it is cowardly and unworthy behavior. However, if we're really clever then we can help the enemy to change his mind, repent and then hopefully make him or her our neighbor. However, we must cast him out when he refuses to repent and continues to pillage and sunder God's resources.<br /><br />It shouldn't matter how far apart we are at the start or how steep our climb up, we should all be moving in the same direction until we know God. Individually and collectively consuming God's Scriptures all of our lives, learning from the wisdom of the ages, patiently and happily leads us to God's truth for life everlasting. <br /><br />The churches' current troubles can be traced to the absence of moral truth in the seminaries, but also with the parents who are ultimately charged with passing down Biblical truths to their own children. The Left has flipped this relationship upside down, and they've done so very effectively.<br /><br />The Bible's simple message is that God is first, and we (collectively) are second.MIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947286602634684447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-50027179774171355812016-08-02T11:09:20.928-07:002016-08-02T11:09:20.928-07:00In thirty years, what if....said the Whatify Monst...In thirty years, what if....said the Whatify Monster....there is a union of Catholic, Orthodox Black African, European and American Tridentine-philes, Anglicanoids, Conservative Jews, and Protestants who have tired of the Krystalle Kathedrahl and who seek the comfort of the Gregorian chants and musty smelling synagogues.<br /> We who recognise the excesses of the Inquisition also know that fewer were abused by the Church in that matter than would have been sacrificed by the Aztecs in a week of sacrifices to assure the proper positioning the sun for the next harvest.<br /> We are a great segment of the most loving Religion in the history of the Planet Earth. We believe in the unseen. We do no damage. We produce and are brethren of all who profess and friends of the traveller.<br /> In all these things I see the hand of Alex Haley and people like him. Allow him his forty days in the wilderness. And let us charge him...we are people accustomed to leading, but we find Alex Haley something greater than a leader.....nothing magic....but a true thinker of the highest and final degree who can truly illuminate The Path.<br /> David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-41000905734918092592016-08-02T10:51:44.301-07:002016-08-02T10:51:44.301-07:00 I have encountered four, just in this backwat... I have encountered four, just in this backwater of Southernmost South Texas who follow my Rabbi. It was astonishing.David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-83940047789827259972016-08-02T10:50:33.319-07:002016-08-02T10:50:33.319-07:0030 - 12 - that is a Texas-sized 10 - 4.
...30 - 12 - that is a Texas-sized 10 - 4.<br /><br /> There are many good ones, but only one who melds so well the qualities of intelligence, knowledge, and inspiration. And he is a fighter.<br />El Gringo ViejoDavid Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-65644903269040605092016-08-02T10:47:40.965-07:002016-08-02T10:47:40.965-07:00Once again, a person who says in fewer and better ...Once again, a person who says in fewer and better words than I. And they are words my better half and I fervently endorse.<br /><br />El Gringo ViejoDavid Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-35598117371238952072016-08-02T04:14:54.077-07:002016-08-02T04:14:54.077-07:00Alex,
We on the other side of the Atlantic have b...Alex,<br /><br />We on the other side of the Atlantic have become used to the idea that whatever happens in the US will one day happen in the UK, however lunatic it might seem. It might take a year, it might take twenty, but sooner or later, it will happen.<br />So, although not understanding some of the finer points of US law despite your excellent attempts at explaining them for the uninitiated, I know all these issues are going to be here sometime. I had always believed that our judiciary was the best in the world, until I realised that our judges were political appointments like every other hack and crony that surrounds political life these days. <br />So far, however, we haven't resorted to the civil courts to resolve our disputes - see 1 Cor 6:1-8 - and when it does, that will probably be the time when the C of E finally has no credibility in the rest of the Anglican Communion. Time to sell up and go...Richard Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14995833811532550388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-35398664018246409912016-08-01T15:35:46.043-07:002016-08-01T15:35:46.043-07:00Dear Allan,
I would surely miss you if you stoppe...Dear Allan,<br /><br />I would surely miss you if you stopped writing. I think there will be plenty to talk about in the coming years- Anglican realignment around the GS, we will need a scorecard to identify all the ACNA jurisdictions and bishops, and the upcoming Gafcon conference that will determine the future of Global Anglicanism.<br /><br />I think, for us, it is a time to go forward and build up Christ's Church. The 25-30 orthodox provinces of the Anglican Communion have awakened to the danger before them, but will need help and support and good analysis and information, as you have been providing all these years.<br /><br />For Welby and his Ambiguous Community of Good Disagreement, well....<br /><br />"“When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong–these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.”<br /><br />Winston Churchill<br /><br />—House of Commons, 2 May 1935, after the Stresa Conference, in which Britain, France and Italy agreed—futilely—to maintain the independence of Austria.TJ McMahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878728399945432911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-56335141805040300192016-08-01T07:07:13.042-07:002016-08-01T07:07:13.042-07:00Dear Allan,
New to your blog, but appreciative of...Dear Allan,<br /><br />New to your blog, but appreciative of the scars. Such betray orthodoxy.<br /><br />Why not write for those Christian friends you know, and for those silent ones you've not yet met? <br /><br />The battles may differ, but the struggle is shared.<br /><br />May God bless and keep you.<br /><br />AlecAlechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00825239050486476125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-87816477495111012892016-07-31T21:32:45.693-07:002016-07-31T21:32:45.693-07:00Dearest Allan:
You ask: "What is left for th...Dearest Allan:<br /><br />You ask: "What is left for this Curmudgeon to write about?" <br /><br />Rather: the question is WHO is there to write about? <br /><br />JESUS CHRIST!<br /><br /><br />MAMMary Ann Muellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03838687278059575721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-77549209959981466872016-07-31T19:01:58.068-07:002016-07-31T19:01:58.068-07:00Oh please don't go Mr. Haley. I have written ...Oh please don't go Mr. Haley. I have written here before that I joined my beloved Episcopal Church at 15. I so loved it. Finally I could see where the church was going - I am now a happy Catholic. However, my daughter is so looking for something Anglican. For her I am hoping for the growth of the ACNA. May it stay strong. Please report on how it is doing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04669231551489183715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-13669775471698057732016-07-31T16:48:30.374-07:002016-07-31T16:48:30.374-07:00I came to belief, then Anglicanism by the way of r...I came to belief, then Anglicanism by the way of reason…much has been added along the way…but reason has remained my path to understanding Scripture, my place in the world & the Body of Christ, to morals and duty.<br />You, Mr. Haley, with a few others, I consider to be the most reasonable of men and I would very much miss your insight, especially on the subject of Law, as it relates to our Christian duty.<br />I am often frustrated with questions: "how in the world could a Court have reached that decision?", what do they think ''the free exercise thereof" means?", or "shall not be infringed"?<br />I think there are battles yet to be fought, and we need your input.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10906980382835490734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-31349649723035751412016-07-31T11:59:21.999-07:002016-07-31T11:59:21.999-07:00UP, I consider that case to be more Anglican than ...UP, I consider that case to be more Anglican than Episcopalian, same as Fort Worth. I shall cover them both, to the end. A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-47380910092847379712016-07-31T10:02:13.167-07:002016-07-31T10:02:13.167-07:00There is still the case that the SC Supreme Court ...There is still the case that the SC Supreme Court is sitting on!Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-57232133462835927992016-07-31T08:17:18.650-07:002016-07-31T08:17:18.650-07:00The fervor of a Protestant submerging a new congre...The fervor of a Protestant submerging a new congregant in the name of Jesus of Nazareth....the incense, the comfort of ancient words derived from the Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, and early English writings and good Catholic order is all worth at least a good autopsy.....and who knows...on the third day.....,???David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-24425860722884933882016-07-31T08:13:37.586-07:002016-07-31T08:13:37.586-07:00Well spoken. Agree and concur. We find ourselves...Well spoken. Agree and concur. We find ourselves in the back pews of Roman Churches that occasionally have Tridentine ceremony.....David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-45462513755202498142016-07-31T08:11:56.100-07:002016-07-31T08:11:56.100-07:00Conditional Ditto.....Conditional Ditto.....David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-88838450715603368272016-07-31T08:10:23.241-07:002016-07-31T08:10:23.241-07:00Ditto. Add philosophy, Church history, and Alex ...Ditto. Add philosophy, Church history, and Alex Haley's personal experiences.....<br /> David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-8970903744721405442016-07-31T05:21:19.513-07:002016-07-31T05:21:19.513-07:00Missionaries went out an spread the Word, which gr...Missionaries went out an spread the Word, which grew into strong, vibrant churches. Now the churches which once sent out missionaries have become withered, empty husks. We are seeing the beginning of those churches founded so long ago working to return the faith to their early creators. This will not happen quickly, nor in our lifetimes, but the process is under way and deserve an able chronicler.Tregonseehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01705100658499499100noreply@blogger.com