tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post7444113417552233564..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: The Coming Perfect SnafuA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-83711032029888903972008-09-16T19:46:00.000-07:002008-09-16T19:46:00.000-07:00Curmudgeon - I did not get the sense from +Duncan'...Curmudgeon - <BR/>I did not get the sense from +Duncan's letter that he was going to go along with it. But I have the feeling that his seeming acquiescence (if they have a vote to "depose" him) is to prevent any interference with the Convention. <BR/><BR/>The Presiding Commissar of the Politburo was able to do what she did in San Joaquin mainly because those members of the Standing Committee were pretending to be an Episcopal Diocese. The fact that Remain Episcopal did not acknowledge them as a "duly elected Standing Committee" gave Katie Bear the opportunity to do what she did. However, had her actions been challenged in a court of Law, I wonder if the court would not have ruled in the SC's favor, since Schori's actions were clearly beyond what is allowed by the Constitution and Canons of the Episcopal Church, USA. <BR/><BR/>I believe the Pittsburgh situation is different. Here we would have a case of a diocese which is still within ECUSA, but "without" a bishop. In that case, the Standing Committee is the ecclesiastical authority, no matter what the Quisling Calvary plaintiffs may claim. <BR/><BR/>Of course, with such a lawless and ruthless person like Schori, one never knows just how audacious she is prepared to be. I would hope that the leadership in the Dio. of Pittsburgh is ready to defend their right to convene and to carry out any business which that convention would wish to pursue. It might indeed take a court case to decide that. <BR/><BR/>From where I sit, this is indeed a SNAFU and the situation is one which in computer terms (my trade) is FUBAR. <BR/><BR/>I rejoice that I left all this behind and moved to the Anglcan Catholic Church. Even though it does mean a 45 minute trip each way. The peace of mind is worth the extra gas.Allen Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853861649876959271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-46592936439898945452008-09-16T18:58:00.000-07:002008-09-16T18:58:00.000-07:00What can I say to such a magnificent comment, Topp...What can I say to such a magnificent comment, Topper, other than perhaps (please do not regard this as trite) that you have out-topped yourself?<BR/><BR/>I note that over at StandFirm, <A HREF="http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/16205/#278124" REL="nofollow"><B>episcopaul</B></A> corrects me to say that the Convention will be led by an elected presbyter whether or not Bishop Duncan and/or the Standing Committee have been prevented from participating.<BR/><BR/>All that I can say, in the face of such manifest fortitude in the face of oppression, is: Godspeed, ye lions of Pittsburgh! Please God, may your courage serve as a lamp to others in the coming adversities!A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-41306503870285404272008-09-16T18:42:00.000-07:002008-09-16T18:42:00.000-07:00I too hope that Bp. Duncan will stay to defend his...I too hope that Bp. Duncan will stay to defend his flock, but I sense that he may believe that the righteous course of action will be one of surrender.<BR/><BR/>It reminds me of someone else who was wrongfully accused and condemned by a kangaroo court. Two bible verses will summarize what I sense, and what I fear:<BR/><BR/>"He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth." (Is. 53:7 )<BR/><BR/>"I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered." (Matt. 26:31)<BR/><BR/>In the unfathomable wisdom of God, however, our Lord's course of action turned out to be the right one. Perhaps we are going to see the Lord do amazing things in the next few days.Topperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14537239370392917165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-91883116342738292142008-09-16T18:20:00.000-07:002008-09-16T18:20:00.000-07:00James, thank you very much for your comment here--...James, thank you very much for your comment here---I have always appreciated your contributions at StandFirm and T19. I too noticed the quotes around the word "removed", and like you, I hope this signaled an intent <I>not</I> to abide by the outcome should the bishops vote to consent to his deposition. And perhaps we may derive another subtle signal in Bishop Duncan's use of the subjunctive in his letter to his colleagues:<BR/><BR/>"If, in the House’s judgment, you choose to proceed despite my protest and that of so many others, I do ask that you who <B>would deprive</B> me of my see and of my priestly ministry express the courage of your convictions in a roll call vote. To do less will be but one more exercise in expedience and moral failure."<BR/><BR/>The Standing Committee will be able to assume his authority, of course, only in the event he chooses to recognize, whether <I>de facto</I> or <I>sub silentio</I>, that after the vote he is no longer a diocesan of TEC. So I would say we may take our cue from them. Here's hoping that he will remain at the helm no matter what the vote, and force TEC to put its uncanonical maneuvers to the test of judicial scrutiny.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I would like to acknowledge the wisdom of your suggestion that each TEC bishop who does not concur with the validity of the deposition invite Bishop Duncan to a function in their diocese. Only in such a way can the true poverty of 815's roller-coaster strategy be exposed. <BR/><BR/>That being said, I would also hope that those bishops who would be willing to invite +Duncan into their dioceses after the vote could also see their way, as I suggested in the post, to standing up and leaving the meeting immediately after the ruling that the resolution to depose must be put to a vote. And if that meaningful gesture deprives the HoB of a quorum (the bishops so minded should agree on one of their own who will remain to demand a call of the House, to ensure that the lack of a quorum is established), so much the better.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-69222971237720630972008-09-16T15:57:00.000-07:002008-09-16T15:57:00.000-07:00I have read the interpretation that Duncan plans t...I have read the interpretation that Duncan plans to abide by the HoB vote, but I am not convinced he says that in his letter. Rather Duncan uses quotation marks around the word "removed" which suggests that he really means to say "purportedly removed". My interpretation of Duncan's statement was a way of saying to the Pittsburgh laity, don't worry, even if they claim they have removed me, the Standing Committee will still move forward.<BR/><BR/>However, I agree with you, that it is most probable that KJS will immediately move to dismiss all Standing Committee members who won't sign some sort of loyalty pledge. I do hope that Duncan continues to act as bishop and I hope that other fair-minded TEC bishops invited Duncan into their dioceses to do bishop-specific activities to demonstrate that TEC does not uniformly accept this sham deposition.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11350108716366727511noreply@blogger.com