tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post5436434708909172222..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: On the Death of the Anglican CommunionA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-8662676776347724182016-01-16T13:29:02.101-08:002016-01-16T13:29:02.101-08:00Rgvlaw's and Blogger A.S.Haley's posts ser...Rgvlaw's and Blogger A.S.Haley's posts serve to point out the fact that what what's occurred as a result of the Primate's recent meeting represents a step forward in strengthening the future life of the Anglican Communion. When The Episcopal Church (TEC) clearly began to move down an erroneous path (a movement that I recall specifically occurred most notably in 2003) with regard to activities relating to same-sex lifestyles, it became clear that in due time there would indeed be a moment of reckoning, a fact enunciated by Rowan Williams years ago. Looking forward, TEC has now been given three additional years to deal with this issue to the satisfaction of a majority of Primates of the Communion. TEC should begin to soberly face the reality that it is clearly in a position of being subject to measures that further distance TEC from a majority of the Communion unless TEC is able to rectify its actions and pronouncements with regard to matters relating to same-sex lifestyles.williamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462159892385010372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-52595715356548693312016-01-16T09:23:10.834-08:002016-01-16T09:23:10.834-08:00One of your Anglicanon to the Right has posted on ...One of your Anglicanon to the Right has posted on the notion of "adapting the Church to the times or die" theme that I found interesting enough to incorporate in a blog post of my own with the following comments:<br /> http://j.mp/2ChurchAdaptNo or http://intwocities.blogspot.com/2016/01/heb13v8-adapt-to-times.html <br />Heb13v8 | Must the Church adapt with the times? - J :)<br />Heb 13:8 KJV Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.<br />__ The central activity of the Assembly, the presentation of the Gospel is in the power and spirit of God, not in words of human wisdom.<br />1Co 2:4-5 KJV And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: (5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<br />2Co 2:14-17 KJV Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. (15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: (16) To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? (17) For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.<br />A Response to: "The Church has to adapt and change with the times or else it will die."<br />From Not Another Episcopal Church Blog [/] An unsanctioned, underground forum from a blogger in the Upstate of South Carolina. [/] Wednesday, January 13, 2016 [/] http://j.mp/0ChurchAdaptNo or http://lowly.blogspot.com/2016/01/a-response-to-church-has-to-adapt-and.html *<br />How many churches have to die before people will realize that it is not the Church's job to affirm every new social movement that comes along and to change its teachings to [...]JimSmiling333https://www.blogger.com/profile/03007694776764746820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-26724204551795739042016-01-16T09:22:01.285-08:002016-01-16T09:22:01.285-08:00Primate, Archbishop Stanley Ntagali of Uganda appe...Primate, Archbishop Stanley Ntagali of Uganda appears to understand the Scriptures, to paraphrase Jesus, "be gentle, but wise," "do not cast pearls before swine" and "be fishers of men," quite well. Bishop Ntagali walked away from a political meeting after an already 15+ year long battle, and his actions showed leadership. It made me want to move to Uganda! It would have been wonderful to see more of the Bishops leave that scene.<br /><br />MIMIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947286602634684447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-28387984316120976852016-01-15T14:06:56.109-08:002016-01-15T14:06:56.109-08:00rgvlaw, thank you -- those are very good observati...rgvlaw, thank you -- those are very good observations.<br /><br />My reference to the "death" of the Anglican Communion is with regard to the passing of the old order (as embodied in the "old saw" I quoted in the article). We will, I believe, not see those days ever again. But we will have a new Anglican Communion going forward, for the reasons that both you and I articulate. Thus I adopted the language used in England on the death of an old monarch and the enthronement of a new one.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-70515550633547481112016-01-15T14:03:27.294-08:002016-01-15T14:03:27.294-08:00It would be difficult to use this decision in a co...It would be difficult to use this decision in a court case, Tim, because it is just an interim (3-year) decision, and not a final one. ECUSA remains a member of the Anglican Communion, and will do so until either it amends its Preamble, or is voted off the membership list by the Anglican Consultative Council.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-6466088961729610982016-01-15T13:34:30.868-08:002016-01-15T13:34:30.868-08:00I think you may be premature in concluding the AC ...I think you may be premature in concluding the AC is dead. The pent up frustration and anger of the conservatives demanded a definitive resolution: expulsion of TEC or a breakup of the AC. Neither occurred. But the expectations of the conservatives were rooted in emotion rather than based on logic and practicality given the governing structures of the AC which contain no mechanism for member discipline. If the object of the meeting was to restore Godly order to the AC by disciplining an errant member province, then my take is that GAFCON achieved all it could reasonably expect to achieve short of putting an end to a communion of 80 million souls. Because of the work of the GAFCON primates, there is now a de facto disciplinary mechanism in place: formal peer rejection by majority agreement of the provincial leaders. We may never know whether Archbishop Welby intended this result or whether it was forced on him by compromise. Nevertheless, a measure of Godly order was restored to the AC by the reaffirmation of Lambeth Resolution 1.10 on human sexuality and an implicit mandate for TEC’s governing documents to comply as a condition for continued membership. Contemplated future actions by ACoC and C of E to formally undermine Lambeth 1.10 may have been thwarted.<br />On a scale of one to ten, I would give GAFCON a success rating of eight. By majority action, the AC primates drew a line in the sand and the province (TEC) whose governing documents are repugnant to Lambeth 1.10 was disciplined akin to making a misbehaving child stand in the corner until he or she repents. Here, TEC’s repentance requires it to amend its marriage canon consistent with the spirit of Lambeth 1.10. Since TEC’s repentance requires a formal corporate act it is only fair it be given a reasonable opportunity to comply which will not be until its General Convention convenes in 2018. We all know TEC will do no such thing. Nonetheless, there are two conclusions to be drawn: (1) there is an objective standard and a measure of discipline in the AC where none existed before; and, (2) TEC has been hugely humiliated by the child-like discipline imposed by the majority of its peers in the AC. The humiliation is all the greater because upstart ACNA Archbishop Foley Beach was treated as an equal and invited to be witness to the entire process. <br />Whether the secular erosion of the AC has reached a high water mark remains to be seen. TEC and its liberal allies will use all of their wiles to undermine the process of restoring Godly order. But the primates have spoken and D-Day for TEC will arrive in 2018. Given what is at stake, waiting three years to see if this round of chemotherapy takes is worthwhile. <br /><br />rgvlawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03423528774449340276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-56198099084133296232016-01-15T13:25:39.609-08:002016-01-15T13:25:39.609-08:00Because of our Rabbi, I actually knew and understo...Because of our Rabbi, I actually knew and understood the particulars of the 'pronunciamento" of the Convention. It is certain. "The Anglican Communion is dead. Long live the Anglican Communion!"<br /><br />And Blessed be His Name!!!<br />El Gringo Viejo David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-27352398543601823592016-01-15T12:42:01.298-08:002016-01-15T12:42:01.298-08:00Thanks AC.
Any thoughts on implications for ECUS...Thanks AC. <br /><br />Any thoughts on implications for ECUSA claims to orthodoxy in current or appealable legal cases?Tim Mildenhallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10003332641048169794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-3177841591608225722016-01-15T10:27:43.281-08:002016-01-15T10:27:43.281-08:00Thank you, Mr. Haley. It shows the gravity of whe...Thank you, Mr. Haley. It shows the gravity of where we sit in all this. <br />Milton Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06751775714568357428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-27212791675771395622016-01-15T07:10:42.547-08:002016-01-15T07:10:42.547-08:00Many thanks for this prompt and detailed and excel...Many thanks for this prompt and detailed and excellent summary of the gathering of the primates.<br />And for years of excellent commentary and for very useful links to fellow commentators.JimSmiling333https://www.blogger.com/profile/03007694776764746820noreply@blogger.com