tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post407105189873386424..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: Trouble Ahead for U.S. Churches?A. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-30577284867138914272015-06-30T09:31:56.550-07:002015-06-30T09:31:56.550-07:00Did I sleep through the repeal of the tenth ammend...Did I sleep through the repeal of the tenth ammendment?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10906980382835490734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-50271359254185433232015-06-29T15:00:40.733-07:002015-06-29T15:00:40.733-07:00Strategically, I could see getting churches out of...Strategically, I could see getting churches out of the legal union business. However, without research, I would think churches with policies and teaching against SS behavior could still be found "contrary to established public policy." The Bob Jones precedent appears quite broad.<br />MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13785109827274021232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-18122608490665362232015-06-29T13:27:46.336-07:002015-06-29T13:27:46.336-07:00There may be a practice with regard to marriage th...There may be a practice with regard to marriage that I believe is being implemented in the Sikh community in Britain and which could prove of much help if adopted by conservative religious entities in the U.S. and elsewhere.. I believe a member of the Sikh clergy in Britain will now perform a marriage rite for a man and a woman only in situations where the individuals involved have been married through the civil process prior to the performance of such rite. Although a departure from previous practice in this area, the above practice would seem practical and desirable for most conservative religious entities.williamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462159892385010372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-26095593335414122992015-06-28T21:07:27.383-07:002015-06-28T21:07:27.383-07:00Jeff, thank you - as always - for bringing your pe...Jeff, thank you - as always - for bringing your perspective here for testing in the line of fire. Your views will always be respected; nevertheless, you cannot expect a statement like this to go unchallenged: "The majority ... applied ... the Fourteenth Amendment calling for equal protection <i>under the law.</i>"<br /><br />The italicized portion of your quote is where the problem lies with your assertion. "Under the law" that had applied in the U.S. for more than 200 years until last Friday, marriage was understood as the union between a man and a woman - a husband and wife. In order to declare the "right" that you say was there all along, the majority first had to redefine what marriage was. And there is absolutely no authority in the Constitution or the Fourteenth Amendment for them to have done so: they simply found their new definition in the <i>Zeitgeist</i>, which is to say, they invented it out of whole cloth. <br /><br />You do not, I notice, engage the main point: that under existing precedents, churches and religious institutions which refuse to recognize same-sex marriages will either lose their tax exemptions or even worse, be required to forfeit their property. Your claim that "marriage" is limited to just two people has no more basis in tradition than that it was only between a man and a woman. Throw out the tradition, as the Supreme Court has done, and there remains no tradition-based ground upon which to say that "marriage" can occur only between two people. A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-18006500121325333432015-06-28T17:25:06.639-07:002015-06-28T17:25:06.639-07:00Where is that limiting principle to be found?Where is that limiting principle to be found?Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-17889965871330990622015-06-28T13:35:44.828-07:002015-06-28T13:35:44.828-07:00Perhaps Justice Scalia, a Catholic from New York C...Perhaps Justice Scalia, a Catholic from New York City, should ameliorate the ethnic and geographical imbalance on the Supreme Court by resigning. <br /><br />The majority did not “discover a constitutional “right” to marriage”; rather, it applied the Fourteenth Amendment calling for equal justice under the law. Such a right cannot be granted or withheld on a state-by-state basis. <br /><br />Polygamy and polyandry are irrelevant. There is a limiting principle, that of extending marriage equality to two consenting adults regardless of sexual orientation. <br /><br />As a longtime supporter of marriage equality, I do not believe that churches should be forced to perform same-sex marriages. Rights in conflict, however, are one of the hallmarks of democracy. Anticipating such conflicts is surely not a reason to deny marriage rights to gay Americans.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07149064142161519774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-16108597857178770522015-06-28T13:09:46.037-07:002015-06-28T13:09:46.037-07:00Romney's great, and great grand nephews, and s... Romney's great, and great grand nephews, and several score of 1st cousins twice/thrice removed came from these trials and tribulations. There were times of all-out war concerning these issues. Almost 40% of the Mormon population moved into Mexico, and to-day they constitute a decidedly positive presence there. They have long since inter-married, practice their ways and disciplines, and continue their building of tabernacles through the nation, especially in the north. <br /> In the capital city of Ciudad Victoria, Tamaulipas, they have two moderately large tabernacle compounds, very well constructed and well maintained. This is for a city of with two Roman Cathedrals, and as many as 40 Protestant Churches of various sizes and denomination. <br /><br /> The assaults by the Sodomites and the Gamoramites has been and will continue to be....never ending until either we collapse or they expire. Small Farmer's "guard trap" from the offensive manoeuvre in American football is a neat solution. It would require having sacraments delivered from now on only in private homes, and even that might be overturned as an alternative, because Jefferson may have written that Constitutional article on some pack page in invisible ink, leaving it as yet un-discovered. <br /> Our Rabbi's refreshingly correct use of the word "ironic" is dead on concerning yesterday's punishment of bigamy morphing into to-day's requirement to endorse the Sacracment of Holy Matrimony to two who have chosen to scoff at the meaning and purpose of said Sacrament.<br /> <br /><br />El Gringo Viejo David Christian Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486433908063462273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-53628438819080318972015-06-28T09:06:15.264-07:002015-06-28T09:06:15.264-07:00True, SFitC, but the Episcopal Church (USA) wants ...True, SFitC, but the Episcopal Church (USA) <i>wants</i> to be in the same-sex marriage business. Therefore, as I say, it will have to make the performance of such rites mandatory in order to be sure of a continuing tax exemption.<br /><br />It is ironic, is it not? In the space of a little more than a hundred years, we have gone from punishing churches for espousing polygamy to the point where we will soon be punishing those churches who <i>do not</i> celebrate polygamy.<br /><br />Ponder, if you will, what that says about our society.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-79812975832098722342015-06-28T07:26:24.645-07:002015-06-28T07:26:24.645-07:00I offer the thought that if the Church, general or...I offer the thought that if the Church, general or particular, gets out of the marriage business per se - in other words leaves civil unions to the state, not allowing clergy to serve as government agents - and merely blesses those unions which it deems sacramental, then the problem goes away, eh?Small Farmer in The Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14271910054588466598noreply@blogger.com