tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post3843024714383776819..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: A Parish May Buy Its Independence -- but at What Cost?A. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-63055517094500092712011-02-05T07:04:15.402-08:002011-02-05T07:04:15.402-08:00Trying to come up with a public rationale for the ...Trying to come up with a public rationale for the TEC diocese's non-association clause, this is all that I could find:<br /><br />"Additionally, St. Philip's agrees not to support any litigation brought by another against the Diocese involving property."<br /><br />The rest can be found here:<br />http://www.episcopalpgh.org/episcopal-diocese-signs-agreement-with-st-philip%E2%80%99s-church/<br /><br />It is just assurance that St. Phillips KNOWS that they're still in TEC's pocket. Probably not legal, definitely not ethical.SometimesWisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18174877906545481652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-77795783273399800292011-02-04T23:30:05.185-08:002011-02-04T23:30:05.185-08:00Was this settlement a unilateral move on St. Phili...Was this settlement a unilateral move on St. Philip's part? How does that work?<br /><br />i confess I am puzzled.<br /><br />Veriword: mingtheAllen Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00853861649876959271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-9018291476718742492011-02-04T13:31:33.195-08:002011-02-04T13:31:33.195-08:00I am not surprised at TEC's role in this curre...I am not surprised at TEC's role in this current situation at St. Philip’s in Moon Township. TEC’s plan, since the split, has been to take down the Anglican diocese in North America and in particular Arch Bishop Duncan. What is sad is that they found willing participants at St. Philip’s. TEC found a weak link and exploited it as best they could to further their goal. I would be more empathetic toward The Rev. Taylor and his vestry if they had been up front about what they were contemplating. I would not (and do not) agree with them, but at least I would have respected the fact they remained up front about their plans. These are people who sat at meetings and dined with Arch Bishop Duncan and other clergy and other church members as we made plans to stick together and fight TECs tyranny. Back room secret dealings are the breeding ground for bad decisions. We can rationalize almost any actions we take, especially if we discuss them with others who will confirm our actions regardless of the purity of those actions. In my opinion, to state you cannot serve people and spread the gospel without a particular building shows a striking lack of faith. Buildings don’t serve, people serve. I believe that things were not proceeding as The Rev. Eric Taylor and his vestry thought they should so they struck a deal and furthered TECs vindictive plan. What saddens me even more is that we may lose others in this manner also; I pray they will be up front with their choices. I am reminded of what the Ugandan bishop said and did in 2003 (?). I was on the vestry of my church and remember the strain of TECs decision. The then Presiding Bishop and governing body of TEC gave thousands of dollars to the Ugandan Episcopal Church for their work in Uganda. This is no small sum when you realize that $200.00/year is the average income in Uganda. But the bishop of Uganda refused the donation and told the bishop and TEC, “Salvation is not for sale.” We would do well to remember this.MB 80https://www.blogger.com/profile/10195408076223341774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-13721723438607103862011-02-03T20:10:17.153-08:002011-02-03T20:10:17.153-08:00Jeremy, I'm presuming that St. Philips will fu...Jeremy, I'm presuming that St. Philips will function much as Christ Church, Grove Farm does currently and has since its inception well before "the split." I don't suspect sacramental confirmation is a show-stopper for St.Philip's polity. (Please read that with a tone of affectionate humor, though I admit to other less benevolent feelings with regard to the agreement.) <br />Thanks to our beloved Crumudgeon for this excellent commentary.Free Range Anglicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484140709221984584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-89907615900779323112011-02-03T17:32:48.100-08:002011-02-03T17:32:48.100-08:00Five years strikes me as a long time for a non-com...Five years strikes me as a long time for a non-compete, but I don't know what the standard is in Pennsylvania. In any case, who besides St. Phillip's would have standing to challenge it?Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-1146396462586222502011-02-02T10:30:17.165-08:002011-02-02T10:30:17.165-08:005 year contractural hiatus from re-starting a busi...5 year contractural hiatus from re-starting a business is fairly common when a business is purchased from a single owner in order to keep that person from starting up a "new" and immediately competitive business with established customers loyal to the seller.<br />This is a "don't be in competition with us" clause. It just doesn't make that much sense here since the parish has already been apart (and competitive in regard to existing parishioners) from TECUSA for a couple of years, and thus enough time for known quantities to settle in. At this point, it is not a matter of existing parishioners, but of bringing in the un-harvested. If anything, the 5 years could have been reduced by the time since the diocesan convention where things split; 5 years at first glance seems cold and mean-spirited. Maybe there was some other circumstance, though, enough for the rector to concede.amateurcanonisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00078764195735094947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-13972309367516763842011-02-02T08:13:06.166-08:002011-02-02T08:13:06.166-08:00"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men g..."<i>Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles</i>? <br /><br /> "<i>Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit</i>. <br /><br /> "<i>A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit</i>. <br /><br /> "<i>Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire</i>. <br /><br /> "<i>Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them</i>."<br /><br /> —Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV)<br />___________________<br /><br />Rather says it all concerning TEC, I think. While I, as a Catholic, view many individuals in that body as my Christian brothers and sisters, the body itself is looking less and less like a part of the Body of our Lord.<br /><br /><i>Pax et bonum</i>,<br />Keith TöpferMartial Artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11679584221923893460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-61058482876368172052011-02-01T19:36:38.821-08:002011-02-01T19:36:38.821-08:00Jeremy
Confirmations and new clergy are not a pr...Jeremy <br /><br />Confirmations and new clergy are not a problem. They can bring in a bishop from Africa, Asia or the Southern Cone for that matter. And American Clergy can get transfered and new clergy ordained in many of ACNA allied dioceses in the Global SouthThe Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-87677744370633373642011-02-01T17:27:18.225-08:002011-02-01T17:27:18.225-08:00This isn't meant as a criticism of this parish...This isn't meant as a criticism of this parish if it goes along with this proposal (there may be factors involved that we're unaware of), but I hope that if a similar proposal were made to our parish, we would say no.Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-89985524135320672752011-02-01T14:42:06.859-08:002011-02-01T14:42:06.859-08:00@Jeremy Bonner - The clergy of St. Philip's wi...@Jeremy Bonner - The clergy of St. Philip's will remain canonically resident in the Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh, even if St. Philip's is no longer a parish of the diocese. As far as Confirmations are concerned, I have no wisdom to share on that subject.David Trautmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00986419875708288045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-48686408228045329932011-02-01T14:35:03.479-08:002011-02-01T14:35:03.479-08:00These breathtaking demands are even more unfathoma...These breathtaking demands are even more unfathomable after the reading from 1 Corinthians for 3 Epiphany. Obviously, "appreciation of irony" isn't covered in the bar exam.<br /><br />"Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in agreement and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same purpose.<br /><br />"For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters.<br /><br />"What I mean is that each of you says, 'I belong to Paul,' or 'I belong to Apollos,' or 'I belong to Cephas,' or 'I belong to Christ.'<br /><br />"Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"chrylishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08417282205206760286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-48903657458054151732011-02-01T13:54:43.320-08:002011-02-01T13:54:43.320-08:00The dying TEC is jealous of a living breathing gro...The dying TEC is jealous of a living breathing growing church or human family. These are the people who call women and men who are married with children 'breeders'. The kingdom of death cannot bear life, is afraid of life and wants to hurt and destroy the Kingdom of Life.<br /><br /><br />They could choose to repent and come to Jesus and follow Him, but they have chosen their own way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-42218311479106703042011-02-01T13:39:07.015-08:002011-02-01T13:39:07.015-08:00If St. Philip's accepts this agreement, how wi...If St. Philip's accepts this agreement, how will Confirmations be administered and from where will they draw new clergy for that five-year interval? <br /><br />They can't get them from ACNA and how can they receive them from TEC, if they're not in Communion with TEC? It sounds like a recipe for disaster. <br /><br />It may also give some indication - if it's approved - of the weight accorded by parishes like St. Philip's and St. Stephen's to ACNA's ecclesial structures. Of course, by setting itself up so that parishes are sovereign in the area of property, ACNA has rather invited this sort of resolution.Jeremy Bonnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915767119353670952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-53141600699047775652011-02-01T13:24:09.236-08:002011-02-01T13:24:09.236-08:00What's with the five year moratorium anyway? W...What's with the five year moratorium anyway? Why five and not two, or ten, or an eternity?Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-13395701866934783002011-02-01T11:31:54.068-08:002011-02-01T11:31:54.068-08:00Why doesn't this surprise me? I don't put...Why doesn't this surprise me? I don't put anything past Shori and her regime. Now, I can't help but wonder if this is their plan for Ft. Worth as well.SVCVergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03401830625191873904noreply@blogger.com