tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post3580708292067102426..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: Après Moi, le Déluge: Executive Council Fires on South CarolinaA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-36069977062484873002011-09-30T11:08:10.620-07:002011-09-30T11:08:10.620-07:00I have no doubt that the Curmudgeon's legal an...I have no doubt that the Curmudgeon's legal analysis is the correct one. What I do doubt is the likelihood that that analysis will be respected in an actual court. The lawyers of the Episcopal Church will obfuscate and bluster in all manner of ways, and unless there is an exceptional judge, they are likely to have their interpretation accepted. The courts seem to be reluctant to side with those who disagree with the national leadership of religious bodies, even if those bodies have long since departed from any real commitment to their original stated purpose.Charlie Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08726338596245954419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-86647281430972206182011-09-27T19:40:53.599-07:002011-09-27T19:40:53.599-07:00A.S.,
If the vote to remove references to the TE...A.S.,<br /> If the vote to remove references to the TEC General Convention from a Diocese Constitution are ruled “null and void” by the supreme court of 815, doesn’t that mean, e.g., Bishop Iker is still the Bishop of Ft. Worth? Isn’t “null and void” the same as Ultra Vires?SVCVergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03401830625191873904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-28215867814558604202011-09-25T11:39:36.893-07:002011-09-25T11:39:36.893-07:00All to Jesus, Thanks for your support of our recen...All to Jesus, Thanks for your support of our recent actions taken by our convention. We are agreed about the lawlessness of those in control.Gallettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062791988762007882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-40472410357804877542011-09-25T08:06:56.458-07:002011-09-25T08:06:56.458-07:00The first law of the Anglican Church is Scripture,...The first law of the Anglican Church is Scripture, then tradition, including the Creeds and teachings of the early church fathers, then the Formulary. From these, it can be shown conclusively that the recent changes to the Episcopal church by the actions of the pansexual political idealogues violate all these, plus many of the canons of the church as they stand. Those who currently control the HoB and HoD are a lawless group and the Diocese of South Carolina was justified in establishing protections against their ruthless/lawless/aggressive (and ungodly) actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-33657318490419903202011-09-24T15:38:25.614-07:002011-09-24T15:38:25.614-07:00unknown, good question. the diocese of sc had no ...unknown, good question. the diocese of sc had no accession clause until 1980s. remember this was a diocese that formed pecusa/tecusa/ the accession clause was for dioceses that join after the association was formed. <br /><br />they probably will think that joining means the diocese accedes to both. for the record, the diocese of sc still acceeds to the constitution.<br /><br />pewster, love your comment to melinda. lol!<br /><br />sorry for all lowercase, i am holding a cat!Gallettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062791988762007882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-24905573857651661942011-09-24T08:05:40.469-07:002011-09-24T08:05:40.469-07:00A simple response to Melinda would read,
"L...A simple response to Melinda would read, <br /><br />"Lots of Lucka with that one."Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-19717940990598729502011-09-24T07:24:05.669-07:002011-09-24T07:24:05.669-07:00And so it begins: a satanic attack against a Godly...And so it begins: a satanic attack against a Godly bishop and diocese. What is ECUSA going to do about the dioceses which have no accession clause?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07218931330153862059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-81685483470726486002011-09-24T04:50:42.854-07:002011-09-24T04:50:42.854-07:00I'll keep my eyes and ears out for more from t...I'll keep my eyes and ears out for more from this topic. I cannot see how the ECUSA can think it can legally defend the claims that a Diocese is both unable to leave and unable to alter it's laws without serious legal complications.Anglizen Dreamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08142327140220207338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-79378238795006325902011-09-24T01:21:20.488-07:002011-09-24T01:21:20.488-07:00Dear Curmudgeon,
It would seem the phrase "nu...Dear Curmudgeon,<br />It would seem the phrase "null and void" (as noted by Executive Council fiat below) is still at the center of the ongoing litigation in San Joaquin, is that not true?<br /> And there were TWO "null and voids": one declaration made in response to the 2006 Convention actions regarding their constitution, and another at their Special Convention in March, 2008, in order to effectively "reset" any and all actions done at the 2007 Convention (with, it would seem, a great deal of inconsistency in what actually got carried forward, and what was demanded to be left behind - such as any action taken by San Joaquin convention prior to the vote to insert a Canon noting their new diocesan provincial home).<br />Something never really tested is the threat of David Booth Beers regarding the action of the Presiding Bishop towards dioceses such as Pittsburgh as noted below. Certainly, various voices have celebrated depositions of bishops as fulfillment. But those depositions were coming anyway, since those bishops had no intention of staying in TECUSA once their dioceses had left. Mark Lawrence has no intention of leaving TECUSA. <br />From an ENS and Living Church articles in August of 2007:<br />"In June of 2007, the national Executive Council approved a resolution declaring null and voidchanges by several dioceses, including San Joaquin, to qualify their accession to national church bylaws. David Booth Beers, the Presiding Bishop's chancellor, and the House of Bishop's Task Force on Property Disputes are also on record in opposition to such changes. <br />"Fr. Snell (San Joaquin Standing Committee president) said he was not certain that clergy and lay delegates (at their diocesan convention in December) would spend much time considering how national church leaders would react after the final vote on the proposed canonical changes. Civil litigation could have far-reaching implications."<br />and from http://www.fwepiscopal.org/news/crisisinthechurch.html<br />+Writing in October 2006, before the installation of the new Presiding Bishop, but using a female pronoun (the incumbent Presiding Bishop was Frank T. Griswold), TEC Chancellor David Booth Beers asked for a change in the document's wording because it might “be read as cutting against an ‘unqualified accession’ to the Constitution and Canons of the General Convention of The Episcopal Church.” In particular, he asked that the condition concerning Holy Scripture be removed. He concluded his letter saying, “Should your diocese decline to take that step, the Presiding Bishop will have to consider what sort of action she must take in order to bring your diocese into compliance.” <br />And here is the resolution from June 2007, wherein the national Executive Council said, "Any amendment to a diocesan constitution that purports in any way to limit or lessen an unqualified accession to the constitution of The Episcopal Church is null and void, and be it further resolved that the amendments passed to the constitutions of the dioceses of Pittsburgh, Fort Worth, Quincy and San Joaquin, which purport to limit or lessen the unqualified accession to the constitution of The Episcopal Church are accordingly null and void and the constitutions of those dioceses shall be as they were as if such amendments had not been passed.”amateurcanonisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00078764195735094947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-38944637831177786722011-09-23T20:01:07.492-07:002011-09-23T20:01:07.492-07:00Add to that list Melinda Lucka the attorney. I hea...Add to that list Melinda Lucka the attorney. I heard her once in an Episcopal Forum meeting. Not impressed.<br />I hope our standing committee/chancellor sends a nicely but strongly worded letter back to the executive council. Well you can guess what I think it should say.<br /><br />SC Blu Cat LadyGallettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062791988762007882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-62247295282452690692011-09-23T19:55:45.511-07:002011-09-23T19:55:45.511-07:00Ugh. I am not thinking very nice thoughts towards...Ugh. I am not thinking very nice thoughts towards the PB, DBB, Executive Council or the EFSC. <br /><br />SC Blu Cat LadyGallettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062791988762007882noreply@blogger.com