tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post2079066196205886235..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: ECUSA: Hollow Gains, Pointless LossesA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-34492707612252525292012-05-02T10:12:48.581-07:002012-05-02T10:12:48.581-07:00A.S.: A couple of new questions that I've been...A.S.: A couple of new questions that I've been pondering and other people I know (inside and outside the Anglican faith) have asked me...something for future consideration: <br /><br />(1). If Katharine Jefferts Schori ends up on the wrong side of the upcoming Texas Supreme Court ruling, could this jeopardize her position in the upcoming 2012 General Convention? <br /><br />TEC has told everyone that they are winning like 90% of their legal battles, returning properties to loyal congregations who haven't had a place to worship, etc. <br /><br />However, history often has a cruel way with optimism, especially optimism based on false pretenses, and so it seems to me that TEC's propaganda campaign might turn on them if they get a 0-for-2 loss in Texas, or even split the two cases. (If ACNA lost the Fort Worth appeal but won the San Angelo one, then for KJS it might as well be 0-for-2 loss because all of Iker's churches would just leave Schori's diocese. There are many ways she can lose this thing, and that probably keeps her up at night.) <br /><br />The money spent on litigation only seems worth it if TEC seems to be winning. A big loss in Texas, which would get bigger media coverage than the smaller cases, might really unsettle things for Jefferts Schori with Episcopal moderates who are weary of the fight and worried about TEC going bankrupt. On the other hand, the revisionists won't be pleased with Ms. Schori either if she loses...she could get bloodied from many different angles. <br /><br />(2). Any chance we will see Jefferts Schori in a prison cell? <br /><br />I've written to my congressman to look into any violation of TEC's nonprofit status, etc. However, if history (old and recent) has shown us anything, it is that institutional or public leaders (who were once the 'toast of the town' for their passion, empathy, and big ideas, etc) only care about saving their place, and when their policies cause (as Schori's has) real insolvency and internal damage, they twist the numbers, even move the numbers around...take the money from here and put it there, etc. This way, it looks (as long as no one looks too closely) like everything is fine. <br /><br />The problem is that that is illegal as a strategy because some funds (government, private charity, individual donors, etc.) specifically bind the recipient to not move them. <br /><br />I've had the unfortunate experience in being stuck in a nonprofit institution on the decline (fighting money problems, struggling to remain relevant, etc.), and many of the things they did were illegal but dissembled through accounting tricks. <br /><br />One of my colleagues had a small grant (about $5000 a year) from the state government to publish a humanities journal. However, when he went to the central office (since they denied him a separate account) to draw the money for his expenses, they came up with all sorts of office obfuscation to keep him away from his funds. In the end, all they gave him was $1200. The next year and they year after that, they gave him nothing...he paid for the journal out of his own pocket. <br /><br />Basically, the institution pocketed the money, spent it on other things, but SAID in their various reports that the whole $15,000 for those 3 years was spent on the journal...and on paper, it was. Of course, that $5000 each year was the tip of the iceberg. <br /><br />If TEC isn't already doing this (and haven't they already admitted to moving around mission funds?), the temptation to do it (the more embattled the current regime becomes) will grow.The Reformed Reinhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12117578058106157744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-53051659916769761132012-05-02T08:28:19.382-07:002012-05-02T08:28:19.382-07:00@Mark Brown:
Are you a member of the Church of t...@Mark Brown: <br /><br />Are you a member of the Church of the Good Shepherd (the real one, I mean)? If so, God be with you and your faithful congregation in the coming months...may He give you Justice in the Texas Supreme Court. May He put out the candle of the wicked. <br /><br />PS: You think John Chisum (originally Chisholm) was really of Scottish ancestry? I fancy that maybe he has some German in him...;-)<br /><br />Peace of the Lord be with You.The Reformed Reinhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12117578058106157744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-59406007677508740422012-05-01T18:04:16.433-07:002012-05-01T18:04:16.433-07:00Reformed Reinhardt -
Your analogizing TEC's s...Reformed Reinhardt -<br /><br />Your analogizing TEC's scorched-earth policy to Cain's envy of Abel's relationship with God, is fascinating. Definitely merits pondering.<br /><br />Mark Brown (another Chisum fan.)<br />San Angelo, Texas<br />May 1, 2012Mark Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00169937442115690817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-12452480803645660322012-05-01T13:42:52.391-07:002012-05-01T13:42:52.391-07:00Just to be clear - in Texas, when there are multip...Just to be clear - in Texas, when there are multiple district courts in the same county (in Tarrant County there are 14 district courts, as well as a court of appeals), the court to which a case is assigned is selected by draw. There is no way to file in a specific court until the case has been initially assigned. <br /><br />So there is no way to "pick" a court.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07285325003136746333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-4942665919725997182012-05-01T05:14:48.965-07:002012-05-01T05:14:48.965-07:00According to a commenter on "BabyBlue Café,&q...According to a commenter on "BabyBlue Café," Judge Bellows based his decision on the likelihood of the parish prevailing on appeal, the risk of irreparable harm if the stay were denied, the damage to the diocese if the stay were granted, and public interest. In many states these are the factors a court is supposed to consider for temporary injunctions. I've never heard of them being used in deciding whether to stay a judgment pending appeal, but perhaps that's a distinctive feature of Virginia procedure. I'm also curious whether the denial of a stay is subject to review by an appellate court.Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-36075567948554263902012-05-01T03:51:18.397-07:002012-05-01T03:51:18.397-07:00St. Andrews Parish has lost it's long court ba...St. Andrews Parish has lost it's long court battle with The Episcopal Church USA. The parish, founded in 1850's, left the Church after the induction of a gay bishop in New Hampshire was approved by the national General Assembly. <br />The Appeals Court found that even though the Church was formed before the Diocese came into existence, had a separate deed with no mention of the Church Constitution, it was never-the-less bound to a Cannon inserted into TEC's Constitution decades after the deed was signed!<br />Is it any wonder that our judicial system is being slowly brought to account? <br />What's happened here is literally standing existing contract law on its head. When a church, founded and financed by its membership before there even was a Diocese of Tennessee, can be taken over by that Diocese simply through slight of hand decades after the original deed was signed, is a miscarriage of justice of unimaginable magnitude.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00295054585408533896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-3874552483598217282012-04-30T08:29:35.893-07:002012-04-30T08:29:35.893-07:00Which is why Judge Ortbal (a Christian Scientist, ...Which is why Judge Ortbal (a Christian Scientist, please note) is to be commended for reading what is put in front of him and actually thinking about it.<br /><br />It doesn't mean that he will ultimately rule in the Diocese of Quincy's favor, but at least they'll get a fair hearing.Jeremy Bonnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915767119353670952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-45483746655566386132012-04-30T08:11:08.245-07:002012-04-30T08:11:08.245-07:00My granddad (he passed away in 1997) was a big Joh...My granddad (he passed away in 1997) was a big John Wayne fan, and sometimes I enjoy putting in a DVD movie that he and I might have watched (on television or VHS) together years ago. I was watching Chisum (1970) last night after reading your post, and there is a scene where Billy the Kid (who is trying so darn hard to be good for a change) is reading his Bible at the river. The two passages are worth quoting because I think they are relevant towards such people who could be so envious and evil as to take away a church from those who have entered a covenant relationship with God and his Son Jesus Christ: <br /><br />'Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.” Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him' (Genesis 4:6-8).<br /><br />I think the TEC leadership verses the ACNA and orthodox Episcopalians still within TEC mirrors the Cain and Abel story. The growth of ACNA and biblical Episcopal congregations, juxtaposed with the emasculation and emaciation of heterodox and revisionist Episcopal churches, has embittered TEC leaders who are seeing no harvest from their labors. As with Cain, God gave them a chance to repent and to be restored to Him, but in their envy and their wrath, they have chosen to attack His adopted children here on earth. <br /><br />This leads me to my next passage (just a verse) from the old John Wayne movie: <br /><br />"For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out" (Proverbs 24:20).<br /><br />God have mercy.The Reformed Reinhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12117578058106157744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-2584834349330223402012-04-29T21:34:56.030-07:002012-04-29T21:34:56.030-07:00NW Bob, after studying all these cases carefully, ...NW Bob, after studying all these cases carefully, I have only this observation: whenever there is a clueless and incapable judge involved, ECUSA will win. These cases require a judge to bring a good deal of skill and experience to the table, because most judges' eyes glaze over at the words "Constitution and canons of the Episcopal Church (USA)." When they cannot penetrate with their common sense through the ecclesiastical fog, ECUSA wins every time.<br /><br />And unfortunately, the bench is littered with clueless judges these days, so ECUSA is playing with a stacked deck.<br /><br />TRR, I'm not so sure that it's a matter of carefully picking venues as it is of simply playing the odds -- see my answer to NW Bob. Just as the seminaries are turning out priests who do not know the difference between "the faith once delivered to the saints" and "the faith which you can get people to accept", so the law schools are turning out lawyers, who in time become judges, who do not know the difference between the law this country began with, and the non-law it is now fashionable to espouse.<br /><br />Take a look at our national government, and the kind of non-law it models for everyone. Take a look at the leadership of ECUSA, and the non-law it chooses every time over the proper canonical procedures. The disease is rampant, and we are all the worse for it.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-50635351999758473522012-04-29T18:51:47.409-07:002012-04-29T18:51:47.409-07:00As much as we have lived with this reality for som...As much as we have lived with this reality for some time, I'm amazed that the enormity of the evil behind these lawsuits never sits with me quietly. (I wonder of the bishops aren't being motivated by Satan himself.) <br /><br />A.S., how is picking the right court been a big part in all of this? <br /><br />A diocese like Quincy, for instance, is probably in several different legal venues, so it seems like a lawyer wanting to sue a diocese (as opposed to a single church) might have their pick of courts. <br /><br />As the original plaintiffs in all of these cases, ECUSA has obviously taken legal venue into account when filing their suits. For instance, in the Diocese of Fort Worth case, I know there were other courts besides Chupp's where ECUSA lawyers could have filed their lawsuit. From what I understand, their were political reasons for filing in Chupp's court.<br /><br />If venue is part of their strategy, then it seems that the churches and dioceses who wish to realign are at a disadvantage. ECUSA will obviously choose the court where the odds are most favorable for them. <br /><br />Instead of realigning with ACNA or Southern Cone first, maybe each parish who wants to leave should sue ECUSA first...?The Reformed Reinhardthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12117578058106157744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-25027061441900287582012-04-29T16:08:06.439-07:002012-04-29T16:08:06.439-07:00Dear Curmudgen,
So how is it that time and again,...Dear Curmudgen,<br /><br />So how is it that time and again, court after court seems to ignore any fact or law favorable to leaving congregations? Is there any hope in the judicial process?<br /><br />Yours in dispair,<br />NW BobNorthwest Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12628175652567391109noreply@blogger.com