tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post1370114433548255880..comments2024-02-19T07:24:42.397-08:00Comments on Anglican Curmudgeon: Dating the Nativity: New ConsiderationsA. S. Haleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-28943882372281526132010-12-21T17:00:15.207-08:002010-12-21T17:00:15.207-08:00Don't forget that right now, our Anglican cale...Don't forget that right now, our Anglican calendar has Epiphany beginning the day after Christmas and running until Lent. So there's no adjustment needed in the terminology. "Christmas" is "Christ mass" -- when we take the Holy Eucharist in celebration of Christ's incarnation into the world. That celebration can take place as appropriately as when the magi celebrated it, as on the actual day of His birth.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-86041440340528976362010-12-21T16:31:09.066-08:002010-12-21T16:31:09.066-08:00Deck, I was thinking along those lines,too. A spr...Deck, I was thinking along those lines,too. A spring celebration of the Nativity would not fit into a liturgical year where we know the events of Passover and Easter did happen in the spring. Perhaps we just need a name change from Christmas to Epiphany ??Alexihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09222877183938209659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-8990639724081976062010-12-21T11:54:38.797-08:002010-12-21T11:54:38.797-08:00I would add a reason that celebrating in December ...I would add a reason that celebrating in December (or some time other than in the Spring) the birth of the Christ would be appropriate. I would observe that if the early church had a better idea of the actual date, then the celebration in the Spring would have been too close to what in English we call Easter. As I recall, the preparation of catechumens during a period before Easter goes very far back into the formation of the Church. To celebrate the Birth of the Christ would have disrupted this period of pennance and preparation. Also placing it not too far before Easter would fit well into annual cycle of the Church.<br /><br />With Mr. Haley's note that the Visitation of the Magi and the Epiphany may have occurred in the December time frame, there is more reason that the Early Church would select December for the celebration of the Birth.BillBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17593147581583316765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-80803372194937846192010-12-21T09:20:09.709-08:002010-12-21T09:20:09.709-08:00Absolutely fascinating.
As always, thank you so v...Absolutely fascinating.<br /><br />As always, thank you so very much for this terrific site and the extraordinary, insightful work you so faithfully do !<br /><br />Have a most blessed Christmas and a very speciall New Year !!!bluebird272https://www.blogger.com/profile/01138572507411756160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-87699579553126612402010-12-21T08:54:57.939-08:002010-12-21T08:54:57.939-08:00Starting on the 25th, yes, Alexi. If the magi foll...<i>Starting</i> on the 25th, yes, Alexi. If the magi followed <a href="http://accurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2009/10/star-of-bethlehem-and-nativity.html" rel="nofollow">what Jupiter did</a>, they stayed around with Mary, Joseph and Jesus until January 6, when they would have taken their leave, and departed. (Remember that by the time the magi arrived in Bethlehem, the Holy Family had moved into regular lodgings, and were no longer in a stable.)A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-73622029553595195092010-12-21T08:33:52.851-08:002010-12-21T08:33:52.851-08:00So Epiphany on Dec. 25th ??So Epiphany on Dec. 25th ??Alexihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09222877183938209659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-41243470580591680122010-12-20T10:02:03.889-08:002010-12-20T10:02:03.889-08:00December 25 appears, for the reasons explained abo...December 25 appears, for the reasons explained above and in the posts last year, to be the best candidate for the arrival of the magi from the East to worship the Christ child. It seems perfectly appropriate, therefore, to observe the day with the worship of Christ, and with the giving of gifts.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-53205990438031719472010-12-20T06:27:58.713-08:002010-12-20T06:27:58.713-08:00I have felt for a number of years that the dating ...I have felt for a number of years that the dating of the Nativity of Christ was way-off. Charles H. Welch, who worked with Dr. E.W. Bullinger agreed that December 25 could not be the correct date. I have inclined towards 3 or 4 BC. What do you do on December 25th?RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-14548013389558274542010-12-20T02:24:57.610-08:002010-12-20T02:24:57.610-08:00It seems right that the Lamb of God would be born ...It seems right that the Lamb of God would be born in the Spring which is the lambing season.<br /> <br />All things work according to God's seeming love of layer upon layer of symbol and metaphor and for God's redemptive purposes. In Scripture, every small jot and tittle is there for a reason. The Stories in Scripture of Creation, the Fall of Man, Abraham, Moses, the Law and the Prophets, the Messiah dying at Passover, The Holy Spirit coming on the day of Pentecost, all Christ's words and actions, His Gospel, the early Letters of His followers are all purposeful, deliberate, symbolic, intertwined, anointed and efficacious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-43930219763605442442010-12-18T16:25:34.563-08:002010-12-18T16:25:34.563-08:00Right, RM Bruton, I am aware of Dr. Martin's w...Right, RM Bruton, I am aware of Dr. Martin's work, and have used much of it in my previous analyses. I am also aware of the analyses by several people of the Temple priestly service cycles, which point to a March birth date for John the Baptist, and hence a September birth date for Jesus six months later.<br /><br />However, I am more influenced by the weight of the astronomical evidence, and I will explain how this factors in when I write my next post.<br /><br />Also, there is the point I made in the text of this post: a birth date in September of 3 BC cannot be ruled out, as we will see, but a birth date in September of 2 BC would not only place it outside the consensus of most ancient authors, who had access to many more sources than we do currently, but it also would make Matthew's use of the word "paidion" over "brephos" somewhat questionable -- when the wise men came to visit, Jesus would only have been barely three months old.A. S. Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05108498446058643166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-759178030677978044.post-43547091196040002262010-12-18T14:18:09.667-08:002010-12-18T14:18:09.667-08:00You might take a look at some of the writings of D...You might take a look at some of the writings of Dr. Ernest L. Martin which can be found at the website for the Associates for Scriptural Knowledge. According to the late Dr. Gene Scott, many scholars point towards a date in September for the Nativity.RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.com